When to use 'quelques' vs 'des'

[Al Graham]

I've checked out the French Grammar section on this site re different ways to say 'some' and can't find anything that explains when to use 'quelque'.

I have a list of verbs entitled quelques verbes utiles which I believe means 'some useful verbs' and am wondering why quelques is used rather than des, since both apparently mean 'some'.

Al

[Frank]

"des" is often used when, in English, you'd use a plural object without any preposition.

I eat mushrooms
Je mange des champignons

It's just the plural version of "du"/"de la":

I eat pizza
Je mange de la pizza


I eat sausage
Je mange du saucisson


OTOH, "Quelques" indeed means "some" or "a few".
And yes, "quelques verbes utiles" means "some useful verbs".

"Des verbes utiles" could have also been a suitable title, meaning "useful verbs".

Of course, there are exceptions. For instance, in English you'd say "some food", while "quelque nourriture" would be incorrect in French (we grab "de la nourriture" or "un peu de nourriture" which is sometimes another translation of "some").

[Al Graham]

Thanks for the quick response Frank.

I get that "du" and "de la" and "des" all mean 'some' depending on number and gender of the noun, but I think your last paragraph touches on my main confusion: is there any rule about when to use 'quelque' instead of du/de la/des?

Is there a subtle difference in meaning such as 'quelque' can also mean 'a few', and the others can mean only 'some' or..?

Regards,
Al

[Frank]

There must be a rule or at least a list of exceptions. But I let Neil answer, he's our expert for that kind of stuff :)

[Neil Coffey]

Well, I don't know if I'm an expert on this point, but with my translator's hat on, I'll give you my opinion.

In terms of "pure meaning", it's probably fair to say that quelques and des are more or less interchangeable if what is meant is genuinely "a few". Note that des arguably covers a wider scope: des personnes could mean any number of people greater than 1, whereas quelques personnes probably wouldn't imply "millions".

However, there is an important syntactic difference between des and quelques (and in fact, most other words). The word de(s) generally falls into a special category of words that can't usually have/be a stressed syllable (whereas quelques can). So this means that when translating something like a title-- or indeed in many other cases-- a word such as quelques... can sound better rhythmically.

Note that quelque in the singular generally means something like "whatever ...", "some ... or other". So e.g. quelque nourriture means "some food or other" -- it's not strictly speaking impossible, it just doesn't mean the same as e.g. quelques aliments.

[Cavin Graves]

This year I think I've made this make a bit more sense to me. I could be wrong with this rule but this is at least how I've thought of it.

 

When you say something in English that is singular and you don't use a definite article:

There is an apple. (Il y a une pomme)

 

But when the same sentence is made plural, you simply say:

There are apples. (Il y a des pommes)

 

It's just that we don't have use a plural indefinite article in English.

 

If in English you said:

There are some apples

And weren't intentionally trying to stress the some, it'd probably end up still being:

Il y a des pommes

 

However, if you say:

There are a few apples

Or otherwise, when speaking in French, wanted to stress how there are some apples, as opposed to many, you'd say:

Il y a quelques pommes

 

 

[Meredith Preble]

This just confused me more. For instance in the sentence,

They sent some gifts..Ils ont envoient quelques cadeaux. Why not des cadeaux?

[Cavin Graves]

First, it would actually be, "ils ont envoyé quelques cadeaux."

Second, I'm not sure I understand you're question. This means "they sent a few gifts." It's stressing that they sent some, but just a handful. Maybe two or three? Whoever wrote it probably doesn't know this considering they weren't using the passé composé properly.

"Ils ont envoyé des cadeaux," means "they sent (some) gifts." Plain and simple -- not saying it was just a few, not saying it was a lot. Could be either. It's just like saying "They sent *a* gift," except that it's more than one gift.

[Meredith Preble]

I think that I have it now!!! thank you

[Michaël Meyer]

Hi,

Don't bother about all this. "Quelques" et "des" are pretty much the same in french, and there are no specific rules to differentiate them.

In your example : "Ils ont envoyé quelques cadeaux" is as good as "Ils ont envoyé des cadeaux".

Sometimes french is not as subtle as you think.

[Meredith Preble]

merci

[Michaël Meyer]

Just thought : only one real difference : "quelques" never means "a lot".

[Neil Coffey]

Yes - I think this discussion and a preoccupation with the difference between "des" and "quelques" originally came from an observation that "quelques" is preferable specifically in the case of introducing a title. I think this is largely for rhythmic reasons and is something of an isolated case.