I'd be really grateful for some translation help...

[Sean P]

Hello! (Bonjour!)

I'm currently working on a major music project that will include a French titled track (it's an English language based project). The track will have a French conversation at the start of it that has originally been written in English. I would be incredibly grateful if somebody could spare the time to translate the conversation into French (as my French is not amazing!). I understand that in most cases there probably won't be a direct translation into French - what I am looking for is the French equivalent of this conversation, as a French person would most likely go about saying it.

Some context for the conversation (if that helps the translation): The conversation is between two people who are meeting for the first time in a bar on Rue des Archives, Le Marais, Paris. Person 1 is desperately trying to woo Person 2 (who is more level headed). The working title of this project is "Rendez-vous (Un Coup D'un Soir)" so as you can probably tell, the track is about a "one night stand" as it were. If you need anymore information please just let me know...

Person 1: So are we getting out of here?
Person 2: There's no need to rush...
Person 1: But what if we only have tonight?
Person 2: Then we'll never know...

Any help you can provide would be really appreciated! Thanks

[George Hunt]

Person 1: So are we getting out of here? On sort de la?
Person 2: There's no need to rush... On a du temps
Person 1: But what if we only have tonight? Mais si nous n'avons que ce soir?
Person 2: Then we'll never know... Alors nous ne saurons pas.

just my attempt...

[stu harris]

I know a few bars on the R. des Archives... Le Cactus, Le Bouquet des Archives.... and then the very gay ones....

[Christine]

1: Bon, on y va?

2: On a le temps...

1: Mais si on n'avait que ce soir?

2: Alors on ne saura jamais...

 

(I realize that the last two aren't really grammatically correct, with the different verb tenses. But I think that's more realistic if taken from a spoken conversation. It's also, as you asked, an equivalent instead of a translation.)

[Neil Coffey]

Christine -- just out of interest, why do you castigate them as "not really grammatically correct"? As you say, they're perfectly normal, everyday sentences of French. And I'm not aware of a common prescriptive rule that would castigate them as "incorrect" either.

(And even if somebody has invented a prescriptive rule that ousts these sentences, I really wonder what value it would have... if you start going down the road of proscribing these simple, common sentences, then I think you'll end up never being able to say anything...!)

[Christine]

Just because of the concordance des temps (sequence of tenses?).

I'm not saying the sentence is wrong in itself, but because of "si" in the previous sentence, it seems to me that the last one should be in the conditionnal (-> "on ne saurait jamais"). I doubt we'd hear it spoken though - it doesn't flow the same in a conversation. 

(Of course, it's not the same level of "wrongness" I'd have if it was only one sentence ("si on n'avait que ce soir, on ne saura jamais") or, worse, a "si j'aurais su" case...)

[Neil Coffey]

Oh, I see. I'm not sure that even many prescriptivist believers in the "concordance/correspondance des temps" would necessarily insist on it being applied here, though.

A Thomas, who in other places adopts a fairly shamelessly prescriptive tone, in his "dictionnaire des difficultés de la langue française" has this to say on the matter:

"La règle mécanique de la concordance des temps édictée par les anciennes grammaires [...] n'est plus guère observée aujourd'hui. C'est surtout le sens, l'idée de ce qu'on veut exprimer qui amène le temps de la subordonnée."

That was in 1970, by the way.

Colin, "Dictionnaire des difficultés du français" (Robert, 2006) lists various types of sentence that fall outside the scope of the "Correspondance des temps" (the more modern term). Here's an extract:

"Les entorses, admises ou non, à cette correspondance sont fréquentes. Elles sont dues:

[...]

3. À l'utilisation de formules figées qui échappent aux correspondances normales."

[...]

5. A des phénomènes d'attraction temporelle et/ou modale du verbe d'une proposition sue celui d'une autre : On pourrait croire qu'il faudrait ... (au lieu de qu'il faut ou qu'il faille).

I think you could easily categorise the use of "Si + imperfect" either as a case of category (3) or (5): the use of the imperfect in "Si + imperfect" has such a well-defined role to itself that in in effect "overrides" the usual sequence of tenses.

[Neil Coffey]

And of course, this is a good example of why the "concordance des temps" is descriptively nonsense! (Or at best: it is a set of observations that hold true some of the time, but don't work if you try to apply them religiously to every single utterance of French.)

[Sean P]

Thank you George, Christine and Neil for your help - this is extremely useful. Also insightful reading your tenses discussion. I'm by no means any sort of master of French (as you can probably tell) but one day I do hope to be able to fluently speak the language. I'm a bit of a Francophile, I love the country and one day should be living in Paris with any luck.

 

And Stu - what makes you think Person 1 and 2 aren't both men? There are many bars and cafes on and around Rue des Archives; some are straight, some are dives, some are nice, some are touristy, some are open late and yes, as you say, some happen to be gay.

[Christine]

You're welcome, and I'd be interested to hear the end result when it's done. If you've got a link to a website for this project...

Good luck!

[stu harris]

"what makes you think Person 1 and 2 aren't both men?"   Nothing makes me think that, neither did I imply that I thought about the gender of the interlocutors. The dialog would not change at all, in either language, according to gender.

Your idea that some bars and cafés on R. des Archives "just happen" to be gay makes me smile. The area is extremely well known as a gay meeting place, and bar proprietors everywhere cater to their majority clientele. This is as it should be.

[Ruth Pannell]

"So, are we getting out of here?" is less formal than "on sort de la" and an argotic expression, "On se barre?" sounds closer to me, tho I haven't lived in Paris for some time now and argot evolves.

se barrer : définition, synonymes et conjugaison du mot se barrer d...

And "But what if we only have tonight?" Again, it sounds like a casual exchange for which "Mais si nous n'avons que ce soir?" rings a little formal. In my mind I'm hearing something more like, "Et s' il se trouve  qu'on  n'a que ce soir?" (and what if it turns out that tonight is all we've got)

 

[Sean P]

Thanks for your advice Ruth.

Christine - I will try and remember to send you a link once the project is finished!

We are recording today so shouldn't be too long. And over the weekend we finalised plans to shoot the video in Paris itself which is exciting so I will send you a link to that too.