Ni+verbs

[michael rivers]

I'm not sure how to construct the negative conjunction "ni-neither" with verbs. In a grammar book that I have, the construction ne with a conjugated verb is "Il ne mange pas de viande ni ne boit de lait". For use with infinitives, it uses the example "il n'aime ni nager ni skier". I'm wondering if you can only use the "ne pas+ni ne" construction with conjugated verbs and "ni ne" with infinitives or are both interchangeable? If they're not interchangeable, what is the rule that dictates using one with infinitives and the other with conjugated verbs?

[Neil Coffey]

I don't think there's really a separate rule as such: in either case, there are essentially two patterns:

 

1) Make the first negative a 'normal' negative, and then use 'ni' with subsequent negatives;

2) Use 'ni' with all of the negatives in the sentence, with a special observation in cases where the first 'ni' has "nowhere to go".

 

So what do I mean by "nowhere to go"? Well, if you use option (2) with a simple verb, in effect you end up 'missing' out one of the 'ni's. Logically, you would expect your sentence to be:

 

  *Il ni ne mange de viande ni ne boit de lait.

but in practice this isn't generally judged grammatical, and you actually end up with the following, in effect "missing out" the first 'ni':

 

  Il ne mange de viande ni ne boit de lait.

 

But, contrast this with a compound tense, where the first 'ni' has "somewhere to go", then you could end up with e.g.:

 

  Il n'a ni mangé de viande ni bu de lait.

 

One thing to note is that "ni" is really part of formal usage. In everyday, spontaneous speech, it is rarely used. So there is a difficulty when you start thinking about grammaticality judgements of this type of sentence, because part of what you're judging arguably ends up being a matter of linguistic etiquette/preference in formal usage rather than judgements about the underlying language itself as manifest in spontaneous speech.

[michael rivers]

Thanks for the reply. I think I was overthinking it and your answer makes it a lot simpler.