prepositions with states, provinces, départements

[george willms]

I get the principle with countries (and the 7 exceptions: "au Mozambique", etc.). But what about the American states? When does one use "dans"? And what are the exceptions, and, FCOL, why? Why do we say  "en Ontario"? mais "dans le Colorado"? "en Auvergne" but "dans l'Aisne"? Any ideas are welcome! 

[Chantal Savignat]

geographic names ... there are a lot of rules and as French grammar has, there are so many exceptions based on history.

But to try: In French every geographic name has an definite article. (the indefinite article is never used with a geographic name, because "un colorado" has no sense)

So we have :

Le Colorado

La Californie.

(by the way,

if the last letter is an "e", it's often feminine, but there are exceptions

Names beginning with a vowel use the article " l'  " :  L'Arizona)

Then we have many situations

"from", "at/in" and "to"

from : we use "de" (or d'  for a name beginning with a vowel)

to :

When they are used with a verb like "aller"

- masculine names are used with "au" for a country.

- masculine names are used with "dans le " for the states or region

- feminine names are used with "en"

- names beginning with a vowel are most used with "en" but some names can be used with the two forms and some with "dans l' "

in/at

I think it's the same rule than "to"

Why do we say  "en Ontario"? mais "dans le Colorado"?

"en Ontario" => beginning with a vowel

"dans le Colorado" => masculine name.

"en Auvergne" => Auvergne is a "region", (beginning with a vowel)

but "dans l'Aisne"? => Aisne is a "département" (vowel) but we already had a discussion about "departement" names.

And don't forget, French grammar loves "exceptions".

[george willms]

Could you remind me why it's "en Ardèche" but "dans l'Aisne"? Merci d'avance!

[Neil Coffey]

This actually came up in an earlier thread. These aren't necessarily mutually exclusive: with many departments, speakers will actually use both en and dans, and you will find people saying dans l'Ardèche and en Aisne. There used to be rules (at least invented by some grammarians if not actually followed in practice) that, among other things, compound departments were the ones used with dans, but in practice you'll find either used with most department names.