charger

[alan gould]

i've studied this verb and know that it's not used to express payment.  recently i walked into 

a store in tel aviv and caught the end of a transaction between a french customer and an israeli  salesman.  when the latter handed the customer's phone back, the customer said "vous ne chargez?"  

my theory is that the israeli spoke enough french for them to communicate in french, but that the french customer intentionally used the incorrect word "charger" cuz he knew most people in tel aviv speak passable english and would therefore know the english word which he also knew, but not the correct french word.   i've googled "charger" to see if it can be used in commerce, but nothing has indicated it can.  is it creeping in?  if it's not heard in france, then my theory is the only explanation  i can come up with.  merci d'avance  

 

 

     

  

 

[George Hunt]

Are you quite sure about that,Alan ?

What about this online conversation?

http://www.magarderie.com/forum/archive/index.php/t-50818.html

Do the multiple uses not indicate payment ?

[alan gould]

here's the reverso (collins) dictionary: 

 

charger   

      vt  

     [+camion, voiture]   to load

     [+fusil, caméra]   to load

     [+batterie]   to charge

     [+personne]  

charger qn de qch        (pour une tâche ponctuelle)    to put sb in charge of doing sth, to give sb the responsibility for sth  

     (pour un rôle, un poste)    to put sb in charge of sth  

charger qn de faire qch        (pour une mission, un rôle)    to put sb in charge of doing sth, to give sb the responsibility of doing sth  

     (pour un simple service ou message: demander)    to ask somebody to do sth  

Paul m'a chargé de vous dire que la clé est sous le paillasson.      Paul asked me to tell you that the key's under the mat.  

      vi     (MILITAIRE)   to charge  

english: 

Is there a charge?      Doit-on payer?  

Is there a charge for delivery?      Est-ce qu'il y a des frais de livraison?  

free of charge      gratuit (e)     

there's no charge      c'est gratuit  

extra charge      supplément    m     

at no extra charge      sans supplément  

to make no charge for sth      ne pas facturer qch  

→ No charge is made for repairs.        

     [+sum]   faire payer  

→ They charged fifty cents admission.        

  [+person]   faire payer  

→ he won't charge you unless he sells your property        

How much do you charge?      Combien demandez-vous?  

How much do you charge for this repair?      Combien demandez-vous pour cette réparation?  

to be charged      [person]  

These young women are being charged a lot of money.      On fait payer des sommes importantes à ces jeunes femmes., On exige des sommes importantes de ces jeunes femmes.  

to charge sb sth        [+amount]   faire payer qch à qn  

He charged me £18.      Il m'a fait payer 18 livres.  

How much did he charge you?      Combien est-ce qu'il vous a fait payer?  

They charged us £10 for the meal.      Ils nous ont fait payer le repas 10 livres., Ils nous ont compté 10 livres pour le repas.  

to charge sb rent      faire payer un loyer à qn  

→ I won't charge you rent.        

to charge £10 an hour      prendre dix livres de l'heure  

They charge £10 an hour.      Ils prennent dix livres de l'heure.  

   (=debit)  

to charge an expense to sb, to charge an expense to sb's account      mettre une dépense sur le compte de qn  

Charge it to my account.      Mettez-le sur mon compte.  

[alan gould]

i was going to wait for your response to follow up, but i thought adding this would cut to the chase.  since your french is excellent and i believe you’re on the scene, what do you hear and use?   

i’m certainly happy to use “charger” — it’s easy for an anglo.  i was going to use  “Doit-on payer?” or “Combien demandez-vous?” from the dictionary (or my own “combien dois-je payer?” “je dois combien?” or even “vous voulez combien?”)

to state what someone charged, i was going to use “Il m'a fait payer 18 livres” or “Ils prennent dix livres de l’heure" from the dictionary.  the dictionary also has “Ils nous ont compté 10 livres pour le repas.”  

[George Hunt]

I am not sure what to say (my French is good but not excellent).

I thought I had heard "charger" used that way and I thought my link backed it up .

That is not to say that I thought it was necessarily " proper" or "correct" French and your Collins dictionary  certainly seems to  avoid its usage in this way.

I did find  quite easily that online conversation on that French site  where several participants were happy to use it in the sense of "faire payer" but I did not come across any other examples (I did not continue searching ,mind you)

Perhaps it is just  not used very much in the sense of "faire payer" .Perhaps ,even it is an anglicism  taken up  fairly recently I wonder how up to date is the Collins?). 

Certainly ,for myself if I had cause to use  the expression now , I would go for "faire payer" as it it quite a nice expression and I might not be tempted to use "charger" unless I was to actually come across it again  in real life.

Google search can suffer from the weakness of "finding  what you are looking for"

In any case it is good to learn the other  nice ways of saying "to charge"  that you have found  -although it would also be nice to  find out whether using "charger " instead of ,say "faire payer"  would  actually be frowned upon (it is not immediately obvious to me that it would actually  lead to any ambiguity) 

[alan gould]

i will not use it with regard to commerce unless i learn definitively that it's fully understood.  older people might not know it whereas younger people who study english/people who travel exposed to english might be using it.  

   

[George Hunt]

I  have placed a question in the wordrefence forum . On verra.....

[George Hunt]

It seems  from the discussion over there that it may be an anglicisation that is used in Quebec (and is frowned upon even  there).

Apparently in France itself it  may not be used at all (but people can get very sniffy ;)      )

[Esteban de la Cruz]

Hi,

I confirm it's not used in France with that meaning.

"Charges" is used to mean something you have to pay but only when referring to extra charges when you rent a flat or a room (such as electricity): "Les charges sont-elles comprises dans le loyer ?"

But we commonly say "c'est à ma charge, c'est à votre charge" to mean "I have to pay for this, or you have to".

[alan gould]

because it means "it's my responsibility" 

[George Hunt]

To Alan,

I doubt it has the connotation of responsibility. I would  imagine it is more like "on my tab". (could be wrong ,of course) 

[alan gould]

both esteban and i are right.   i saw in the dictionary "c'est à ma charge" used as he stated.  but there's also "ces enfants sont a ma charge" -- they're my dependents, they're my responsibility.  if i pick up the tab, i'm saying "it's my responsibility" and "charger" is used in the sense of responsibility -- il m'a charge' de faire -- he's given me the responsibility of doing...

[George Hunt]

I agree but  I was  applying it to the context in Esteban's post. 

Sorry for the confusion:)