Faire causative

[Michael Starr]

How does one say : "I must make the man love me."?
When faire causative has a subject and an object, I get very confused. Nothing can come in between faire and the other infinitive, right?

[George Hunt]

Perhaps you can say "Je ferai pour qu l'homme m'aime (vienne a m'aimer)"

You are right that the construction is different.("Je  ferai l'homme  m'aimer" or "je  ferai  a l'homme m'aimer"  or "je lui ferai m'aimer"  will not work)

Note that in the examples that I gave  which I do think work "aime" and the alternative "vienne a m'aimer"need the subjunctive tense  since they follow  "pour que"

Is that any help?

[Michael Starr]

Hi George! Thank you so much for your reply. I'm brand new to this forum/site, and already I'm impressed. I really appreciate your help!

Michael

[Stevo]

Hi Michael and George, Hi everybody.

“How does one say : "I must make the man love me."?”

Thanks for this sentence. If it's absolutely correct in English, I learned something today. ^^ ( in comparison of my French usage )

“When “faire causative” has a subject and an object, I get very confused. Nothing can come in between faire and the other infinitive, right?”

Thanks also for this interesting question because... as I am a French native, I never asked myself about this subject. I use “faire” with his different shapes since my birth without looked for the deep sense. ( I think it's exactly the same for you with respect to the English language. When the language is in the head, It's not yet usefull to find original causes.)

Regarding to le causatif de “faire”, we can say indeed that this verb is very used in French other than the main sense of : “to make ( I make an action/object )”

Following this link, you will found a complete board with all possibilities of the faire causative :

( All text is in French and I guess that all is understandable. However, if you meet a translation issue, don't hesitate to ask some help. )

http://www.patenotte.name/Middlebury/Middlebury3201/Grammaire/Faire...

In addition, the sentence : “I must make the man love me.” could be tranlated also like this in true French. Several possibilities are possible. Likewise, some don't need to use “faire” to have the same sense.

- “Je dois faire en sorte que cet homme m'aime.”

( This is the closest tranlation of the Michael's sentence. )

- “Je dois tout faire pour que cet homme m'aime.”

- “Je dois me faire aimer de cet homme.”

- “Je dois me faire aimer par cet homme.”

- “Il faut que je me fasse aimer de cet homme.”

- “Il faut que je me fasse aimer par cet homme.”

- “Il faut que cet homme m'aime.”

- “Cet homme doit m'aimer.”

- “Cet homme devra m'aimer.”

Some explanations :

- “Je dois faire” and “Il faut que je fasse” are synonyms.

- “je dois faire” is a composite present tence whose “je dois” is the main verb. ( because “faire” is the causative verb, of course! )

- “que je fasse” is the subjunctive shape of “faire”.

- Be aware ! “faut” is not the verb “faire”. It's the verb “falloir”. The nearest English verb is “to have to”.

- “de cet” and “par cet” have the exact sense of “by this”

- “devra” is the simple future tense of “doit”.

“Perhaps you can say "Je ferai pour qu l'homme m'aime (vienne a m'aimer)"”

Congratulations! It's almost perfect. Just one word is missing. ;-)

- “Je ferai tout pour que l'homme m'aime.”

- “Je ferai tout pour que l'homme vienne à m'aimer.”

Personaly, I prefer writing “cet” ( this ) instead of “le” ( the ) because the deep sense is a bit different. Indeed, “cet homme” means “my coworker that I love” “my neighbour that I love” “my best friend that I love” or, why not, “my worst enemy that I love”. So, “cet homme” is a man close to me.

On the contrary, when I say “Je ferai tout pour que l'homme m'aime.” it's means : “I must make the human love me”, if we have the exact position of a god, for instance. The philosophic sense is greatly changed. And when “l'homme” is used like the sense of “the human”, we use a uppercase letter : l'Homme. In fact : “l'Homme” means “the individual human”, “the human genre” or simply “the humanity”.

...“or "je lui ferai m'aimer"  will not work)

The good formulation is : “Je le ferais m'aimer”. “Le” has exactly the sense of “l'homme / cet homme”.

“which I do think work "aime" and the alternative "vienne a m'aimer"need the subjunctive tense  since they follow  "pour que"”

- “pour qu'il m'aime” means “on the condition of he must love me.”

- “pour qu'il vienne à m'aimer” rather means “For this one makes the conscious choice to love me.”

Otherwise, you are right when you say that “pour que” introduces the subjuntive tence.

Here some examples :

- pour que je fasse ( for that I do )

- pour que tu viennes ( for that you come )

- pour qu'on dise ( for that anyone says ) For memory : “il ; elle ; on ; ça” have the same conjugation.

- pour que nous prenions ( for that we take )

- pour vous vendiez ( for that you sell )

- pour qu'ils s'en aillent ( for that they go away )

Be aware ! A lot of French verbs have the same appearance when they are under the present tence or the subjunctive tence. For instance :

Present tence : Je pense

Subjunctive tense : pour que je pense

Like for irregular English verbs ( write-wrote-written, for instance ) it also exists “irregular” subjunctive French verbs. If you want to use the subjunctive tense, it's better that you search before this specific shape according to the verb who is your choice. A lot of these “irregular” verbs are very used in the common French language. There are thereabouts one hundred, including variations of main verbs.

Voilà. Once again, I hope that I don't made many errors into my English explanations. I really try to write over the best manner. And, above all, don't forget to “stay in love” for anybody... ;-)

A bientôt.

[George Hunt]

Thanks Stevo. That was really very  complete.

I didn't realize that “Je le ferais m'aimer” was grammatically correct.

Personally I   would avoid saying it as I am paranoid when it comes to personal pronouns being close together (especially if they are ,for example both direct pronouns)

I no longer use French daily and so I have lost a lot of familiarity and ability to take small risks with the language)

[Michael Starr]

Merci mille fois!

Thank you for taking the time to craft such a wonderful reply. I had always heard that faire causative could not be separated. As in, "tu me fais pleurer." Nothing is in between faire and pleurer. I guess that's why I'm surprised that "je le ferais m'aimer" works. I obviously have a lot to learn! 

Je me suis specialisé en francais a l'université, mais j'ai beaucoup oublié!

[Stevo]

Hi Michael and George.

“I didn't realize that “Je le ferais m'aimer” was grammatically correct.”

Here other examples with this grammatical structure :

( I hope that my English equivalents are correct, because I am almost at the limit of my English knowledges. If it's incorrect, don't hesitate to say it. I will not be offended. )

- “Je nous ferai nous aimer” ( I will make we love ourselves )

- “Il la fera s'aimer” ( He will make she loves herself )

- “Ils se feront l'aimer” ( They will make they love him/her )

Just an accuracy : I removed the final “s” of “ferai” because, “ferais” with a “S” is another tense. This tense isn't the simple future tense but rather the conditional present tense. Its usage is different... Sorry for this mistake.

“I no longer use French daily and so I have lost a lot of familiarity and ability to take small risks with the language”.

I think differently. I prefer to take risks and to write with some imperfections. It's like this that my level improves each week. Obviously, when we are a native speaker of the other language, It must be forgiving. So, if you write in French on this website and even if it's sometimes doubtful, I will be always tolerant regarding to all of your efforts. Indeed, It's not yet easy to write or speak in a stranger language when the mind is coded into another tongue! ^^

Anyway, it's always a great pleasure to read that my explanations are usefull and quite understandable in English. That gives me more the desire to take more risks.

“Thank you for taking the time to craft such a wonderful reply.”

Thank you a lot for thanks. It's the best engine to continue being in progress. ;-)

“As in, "tu me fais pleurer." Nothing is in between faire and pleurer. I guess that's why I'm surprised that "je le ferais m'aimer" works.”

According to this schema, it's exactly the same in comparison to : “You make me cry.” That is to say : [ causative position + action ]. Concerning “je le ferai m'aimer”, here a morphing game to go from the French sentence to the English sentence. I wish this cutting will be enough to understand perfectly.

- “Je le ferai m'aimer.”

- “Je le ferai aimer moi.”

- “Je ferai (que) cet homme aime moi.”

- “I must make (that) this man loves me.”

- “I must make ( ) this man loves me.”

- “I must make the man loves me.”

“Je me suis specialisé en francais a l'université, mais j'ai beaucoup oublié!”

Congratulations! This sentence is perfect in French. Just two accents are missing. Are you really sure to have forgotten everything ? ^^

Finally, sorry for my erratum. I saw it this morning only :

“I use “faire” with his different shapes since my birth without looking for the deep sense.”