"Posh" French

[Jean Dervin]

It is certainly possible to speak of (the equivalent of) "received pronunciation" in French, if one means an accent which is not identifiably regional.  But I have been asked about "posh" accents in French -  the equivalent of people saying "trizers" or "hice" in English for "trousers" and "house".  Would anyone like to give equivalent French examples?  Or does the phenomenon not really exist?

[Jacques Fabre]

The "posh" phenomenon does exist in French ! and, I suppose, wherever so-called "upper-class" individuals (or individuals wishing to be regarded  as upper-class persons...) want to distinguish themselves by means of a sophisticated way of speaking. It is not easy to specify words coming under "posh" accent. Just a few are coming to my mind right now :  

- pronouncing "â" (open "a", found in "la pâte" - the paste, or "la tâche" - the task)  instead of "a" (closed, short "a", found in "la patte" - the paw, or "la tache" - the stain) : "C'est normââl..."

- changing the values of nasal diphtongs "in", "an", into respectively in ->"an", and an ->"on" . Ex.: "Il y a vingt provinces en France", would be pronounced : "il y a van provances en Fronce."

A typical example of "posh" accent in French would be given, in my opinion, by former minister of Finance Christine Lagarde (now Director of IFM).

I will try to find out more examples of French posh for you when they come to my mind.

J.

[Jean Dervin]

I am not convinced by this.  I have made a point of listening to Mme Lagarde on YouTube.  She speaks very precise, educated and coherent French.  She manages to use subjunctives appropriately.  Never a word out of place.  But her accent doesn't seem to me to be very different from that of others I know.  (I have lived in the UK for most of my life and accept that I am just a bit distant from contemporary, day-to-day, French usages, though I visit very often.)  I certainly didn't detect, in Mme Lagarde's speech, the long vowels or strange nasal diphthongs described by Jacques Fabre.  (Actually, I pronounce "pâte" and  " tâche" and "normal" just as M. Fabre describes.  Maybe I'm posh without knowing it.)

[Jean Dervin]

And, while I'm here, how would you render "posh" in French?

[Jacques Fabre]

There are various degrees in posh-speaking, of course. In my comment, I did not mean to say that Mrs Lagarde was the kind of person who wish "to be regarded as an upper-class person" She obviously is by her education, culture, position, and, I suppose, social origin. Her posh is moderate, and far from the ridicule of those who, pretending to be what they are not, cannot avoid exageration.

I could probably have found a better example of posh accent in "Marie-Chantal" (pronounce Marie-Chantââll), a snobbish character created by Jacques Chazot, a fashionable ex-classical dancer who turned very society during the 60's. I wonder whether anything about M.-Ch. or Jacques Chazot can be found on YouTube. If so, you will have a good idea of my conception of French posh.

By the way, I think "B.C.B.G." (for bon-chic-bon-genre) is the nearest translation of the idea contained in "posh" as I understand it.

[George Hunt]

What about "ouais"  for "oui" ? Is that supposed to be posh ?

Isn't there  another way of writing "moi"  like "maouais" (I am not sure about the spelling) that corresponds to  a posh way of talking?

When I was in France I seem to remember  the Parisian accent was mocked.Are Parisians  considered  posher than  other French people?

[Jean Dervin]

"Ouais" is far from posh.

[Jacques Fabre]

I would say pronouncing "ouais" for "oui" is exactly the contrary of posh ! Posh locutors aim at appearing as distinguished, elegant, well-educated persons, whereas pronouncing "ouais" for "oui"comes under a loose style of expression, expected to be commonly used in working-classes, or by unrefined persons. It may be considered as typical of suburban populations in Paris area.

However, when used by (normally) educated persons, "ouais"  expresses that a person  is doubtful of what his interlocutor just said, or that he is reluctant to accept a proposal/an idea previously emitted. "Mouais" (or "mmmouais") emphazises the doubt or reluctance.

[Frenchtiti]

hi

"Mmmouais" is also used by "Lucky luke !!"

[George Hunt]

Do people still read those comics? It must be about 40 years ago that I remember seeing those  cartoons?

Did they make a film? 

[Frenchtiti]

hi,

there is a french film

not very good

with "jean dujardin" 

2009

but that's why I remember this 'mmouais"

[Jacques Fabre]

I think yes, Lucky Luke is still read in France. The author of these comics is Goscinny, who is also Astérix' father, nearly as famous in France as Tintin's author : Hergé.

Yes, many cartoons of Lucky Luke were made, with famous French actors' voices for the dubbing.

I am personally very fond of Lucky Luke (and Astérix, of course !)

[Jacques Fabre]

Yes.

In general, "mmmm", as an isolated interjection or preceding any other word, is the mark of a doubt, or an hesitation. It is also often used as the expression of pleasure, admiration, satisfaction, astonishment, etc. , depending on the intonation pattern in which it is uttered.