French Grammar; use of de/de la/des vs. le/la/les

[Rebecca Cannon]

Hello! I am in FREN 211, currently, after having taken several years off from university to finally finish my degree (not in French!). Part of our class involves doing a "Composition," which we can revise for higher points. One particular part confused me (and I got the most wrong), and was wondering if I could get some clarification.

 

Assignment: Form sentences using the words in the order given. 

 

1. (Imperfect) Je/s'intéresser/apprendre/histoire/vin

2. (Passé composé) Nous/aller/café/prendre/quelque chose/manger.

3. (Passé composé) On/me/amener/cave/vin/fermenter.

4. Elle/être/danger/être/attaquer.

5. Apporter/moi/tasse/café!

 

Here are my original answers:

1. Je m'intéressais[x]apprendre l'histoire du vin.

2. Nous sommes allés au café pour prendre quelque chose le manger.

3. On m'est amené de la cave où le vin fermenté.

4. Elle était[x]danger d'être attaqué.

5. Apportez-moi une tasse du café!

 

Underlined and [x] is where I apparently got something wrong. I don't understand the [x] (I thought he asked for the imperfect? Number 4 I guess was in the present, so I'll just reconjugate it). I was able to change "On m'est amené" to "On m'a amené" because it uses avoir. 

My biggest issues, as it seems, come from the é at the end of fermenter and attaquer, as well as what to use with de/de la/des versus le/la/les. If anyone could explain how I'm wrong and why I should use something else, that would be fantastic.

 

Merci beaucoup! :)

 

 

[Cyril C]

Hello,

 

Here is what you should have written (to my mind) :

 

1. Je m'intéressais à apprendre l'histoire du vin.

The verb is "s'intéresser à" : "Je m'intéresse à l'art." ,"Je m'intéresse à toi.", ...
The sentence "Je m'intéressais à apprendre l'histoire du vin", although correct, is a bit weird.  In french

we would rather say : "Je m'intéressais à l'apprentissage de l'histoire du vin." or, more simple "Je m'intéressais

à l'histoire du vin."

 

2. Nous sommes allés au café pour prendre quelque chose à manger.

"Manger" is a verb. It requires here the preposition "à", like in sentences such as "C'est triste à apprendre." (It's sad to learn.) ou "C'est une chose à savoir." (It's a thing you should know.)

 

3. On m'a amené dans la cave où le vin fermente.

"de" means from. Here, it's not from the cave, but "in".

The verb "fermenter" must be in present (or imparfait : " [...] où le vin fermentait") for logical reason because

the main verb is in 'passé composé'. "fermenté" is never used alone (in such cases), but in constructions like "le vin a fermenté.", "le vin avait fermenté", ...

 

4. Elle était/est en danger d'être attaquée.

To be in danger is "être en danger".

Speaking about a girl, the participle with "être" must be "attaquée".

 

5. Apportez-moi une tasse de café !

Why it's "de" ? Good question... Don't have the answer in mind. It's like in "a piece of bread" = "un morceau de

  pain", "a bottle of milk" = "une bouteille de lait". 

This "de" is not the same as the one involved in du, de la, des.

"De" in "du" (= de le),  "de la", "des" (=de les) generally means "from" : "des oeufs de la ferme" = "eggs from the farm". 

 

Otherwise, you did a great job. 

 

Hope it helps :)

C.

[Rebecca Cannon]

Wonderful, thank you so much! I'm writing down your notes for future reference. It makes a lot of sense to put the à in front of a verb, and the participles were a bit confusing but make sense now. What a great site, I'll definitely be coming back!

[Neil Coffey]

I think a lot of these are the way they are "just because they are" (after all, in English, why does one say "in danger" and not "at danger" etc).

 

However, I just wanted to shed a bit of light on point (5). The pattern you see is basically down to a rule in French whereby speaker's don't use two "de" sequences in a row even where you'd logically expect it.

 

So recall that usually in French, you need some determiner with nouns ("le", "la", "les", "du", "de la", "des", "ce/ces", "quelques", "plusieurs" etc). So in the case of "a bottle of wine", you might logically expect:

 

  Une boutille de du vin.

 

But as I say, it turns out that if you get a sequence of two "de"s (or two words derived from "de"), speakers omit one of the forms:

 

  Une boutille de du vin.

 

On the other hand, other sequences are fine, e.g.:

 

  Une bouteille de ce vin. ("A bottle of this wine") 

 

The construction "une bouteille (etc) de..." isn't particularly special. In other cases where you'd logically expect two de's, the second is deleted:

 

  Il a parlé de ses amis.

  Il a parlé de des amis -> Il a parlé d'amis.

 

[Elias Mohr]

Hi Rebecca,

In French, you don't use the indefinite article when talking about quantities. Thus, you have several constructions that only use "de" and not "de la" "du" or "des". Here are some examples:

 

Il a bu une tasse de cafe. (How much coffee did he drink? One cup. It's quantifiable!)

J'ai beaucoup d'amis. (How many friends? A lot. Again, quantifiable!)

You also use this construction with:

trop de

assez de

plus de

moins de

un morceau de

une tranche de

etc. etc. etc.

 

The list is long, but you use it when the noun that you are talking about is discussed in a way that shows the quantity. If you can remember that, then you'll be fine! :)

 

Also, I don't know how to make accent marks on a PC, so sorry for the lack of accents! Hope this helps!

 

Elias