"tant" versus "tellement"

[alan gould]

1) in the following sentences, I believe I can use "tellement" instead of "tant."  Is one used more often than the other or preferable?

il a deja tant fait.  he’s already done so much.

il travaille tant.  he works so much

il a tant d’amis.  he has so many amis.

il a tant mange qu’il est malade.  he ate so much he’s sick.  

j’ai tant lu que j’ai mal aux yeux.  i read so much that my eyes hurt.  

2) I got the following sentence from a dictionary.  

"Il s'est endormi tellement il était fatigué.      He was so tired that he fell asleep."  

I don't understand the logic.  I would say "il était tellement fatigué qu'il s'est endormi.  

3) the dictionary then has for "tellement" 

" (comparaison)    tellement plus grand (que)      so much bigger (than)"  

 (=si)   so.    Andrew est tellement gentil.      Andrew's so nice."

I'm inclined to believe "tant" would not be used in either of these.  In the sentence about Andrew, I would use "si" which seems to be more common.  I'm guessing that "tellement" is used often this way as well.  Is it a bit more elegant?

4) I suspect the following two are set expressions and "tant" would not be used:

pas tellement fort  -  not all that strong  

(=vraiment)  pas tellement      not really  

merci d'avance 

 

[Vedas]

Hello,

you seem to enjoy raising thorny problems !  :-)

1/ With a one syllable verb it's preferable to use tellement (which answers in part your question 3):

il rit tellement que

il ment tellement que (also il ment tant que sounds like il m'entend !)

in some contexts  the use of tant can sometimes be the source of misunderstandings as it can be confused with the time conjunction tant que/ as long as:

Il travaille tant qu'il est fatigué as strange as it would be it could be understood as "he works as long as he is tired/ while he is exhausted"

to modify an adjective or an adverb we use tellement or si:

il y a tellement/ si/  longtemps

Ce n'est pas tellement/ si/ difficile

to modify a past participle you can use tellement/ si/ tant

Le voila cet enfant si/tellement/ tant/ attendu


2/ Il  s'est endormi tellement il était fatigué/ Il était tellement fatigué qu'il s'est endormi

both are good

I'm sure it's not the first time that you come across French sentences in which the order of events seems  disrupted or illogical, as a matter of fact English is more prone to respect the chronological sequence of events. 

And as a whole English is also more precise and detailed when it comes to describe space/time and movement notions, English has much to do with reality and concrete descriptions and French with abstractions. Now it gives French more liberty in style and words order so it can sometimes defy logic at first sight.

3/ Tant and tellement are both intensifiers for quality and quantity but:

"tellement" can be used with nouns/verbs (and past participles)/ adjectives/ adverbs and  "tant" can be used with verbs  (and past participles)/ nouns (tant de)

 Il est tellement plus grand (adjective) no choice but to use tellement

Il a tant grandi (past participle) que

4/ not all that strong: I 'd prefer to say pas si fort que ça than pas tellement fort, again it's an adjective so you can't use tant

not really: depending on the context you could also say "pas tant que ça"