Is 'mourra' here past tense§

[yong leong]

I have 3 questions here;

   1:  'il meurt en août 1424. Son fils Zhu Gaozhi qui lui succede. mourra aprés seulement neuf mois de régne.'    The word 'mourra' here is past tense?

   2. Si tel est la cas  -  does it means 'if that is really the case'

   3. On ne peut voir leur visage  -  is it the same as in ' On ne peut pas voir leur visage'  ?

[Erwan]

1 : It's simple futur

2 : yes

3: yes. Sometimes we don't say the word "pas" after some verbs but it's the same sense .

[Erwan]

sorry meaning not sense.

[yong leong]

It seems strange to me that they should used the simple future tense here. Ok I try to translate the sentence,
"He died in August 1424. His son Zhu Gaozhi who succeded him will die after only 9 months on the throne. "
Is this correct? I wonder if the future tense is correct. Or is it the other meaning " His son who succeded him would die after only 9 months. which is correct?

[Erwan]

It's a bit stange but the time reference in this phrase is the fact that someone died in August 1424. Considering this point the Zhu Gaozhi death is a futur event.

In your translation, you use the preterit instead of present. Is it normal?

[Neil Coffey]

In English, the idiomatic way to translate this type of so-called "historic future" is to use "would" or "was to". So for example:

 

  His successor, his son Zhu Gaozhi, would/was to die after only 9 months of being in power.

 

English doesn't use "will" in this case. Although you frequently see mistranslations in French museums such as "The king will die in 1684" etc, native speakers really wouldn't use "will" in such cases.

[Neil Coffey]

Incidentally, one thing to bear in mind when you say it "sounds strange" is that labels such as "future tense" are just that: labels. Just because we have decided to call a particular form a "future tense" doesn't then automatically mean that every use of it must actually have a future reference.

 

Most verb forms actually have a variety of uses, and we choose a label that tries to capture the "most general/common use". But that's by no means binding. You've actually seen another example in your sentence here: the so-called "present" tense verb form "succède", which actually makes a past reference.

[yong leong]

Ok Neil, from what I understand now is that this particular way of expression is normal in french and it would sound strange if translated directly to english.

    I think I now get the reason why the word "mourra" is used.  If I keep reading I guess I will get over this puzzle feeling and understand better. This is the first time I encounter such difficulty. It didn't seem right in the beginning now it seems ok.

     Thanks Neil , your explanation helps.